Good evening Joe. Thanks very much for
agreeing to this.
No
worries.
Dark
Shadows: Bloodlust, the series you
recently co-produced with David Darlington, has been met with great critical
acclaim.
We were hoping for a positive response purely because we'd
put so much work into it. Also, I personally loved it. I loved the storyline,
the scripts, the acting, the music, everything. So yeah, we were hoping for a
good response but I don't think we were prepared for just how well it was
received. We've been very happy over the last few weeks, that's for sure.
When did you first start putting it together?
Me and
David started talking in July 2013, I think. We sent Big Finish our initial
pitch document in August and then, when that was approved, we contacted Will [Howells]
and Alan [Flanagan] and started discussing storylines.
And how
did you come to decide on the writing team? Alan and Will had only written one
Dark Shadows audio each prior to Bloodlust. Without
wanting to detract from either of them, to an outsider they may not have seemed
like the obvious choices.
Both of
them had proven themselves to be a) fantastic writers and b) interested in the
series. They'd both watched episodes and become actual fans of the show.
Practically, though, an important thing was that we all lived in the same city.
We knew that the writers needed to physically meet up to chat about ideas (and
drink lots of wine). We could have discussed everything over email - and
obviously once we started writing there were lots of email discussions - but
nothing compares to having a group of writers in a room just batting ideas back
and forth.
That
makes sense, especially the wine! How did you go about devising and splitting
up the plot? How much was known about each episode when it was assigned to its
writer?
It was
all very complicated! We discussed which existing characters we were using and
devised our new characters. We then worked out the main storyline. The series
was split into two blocks - episodes 1-6 and episodes 7-13 - and we worked out
how the storylines would progress over 1-6 with a vague idea of where we were
going for 7-13. We then worked out roughly what needed to happen in each
episode. After that I wrote up a more detailed plan for each episode -
basically giving each character/storyline a different colour and plotting them
over the episodes. We then talked about whether we had any preferences as to
which two in the first block we wanted to write. For example, I was very keen
to write episode 5 as it had the vibe of one of those EastEnders episodes set at night - it's basically a few small
combinations of people talking. Will was keen to do Episode 1 (which I was very
grateful for as it was by far the hardest episode to write). When we got into
the second half of the series, Alan specifically wanted 7 and 12.
I see. How much influence did you all have on each other’s
scripts and did any bits of others' surprise you?
It really was a group effort. Everyone read every draft of
every episode and gave notes on every draft. We had a read-through of 1-6 with
us reading the characters and gave notes on that as well. It wasn't so much a surprise
but what really worked was how by having three writers working together, the characters became
much more interesting. For example, I felt that on a couple of occasions, Alan had overwritten Kate and
Andrew BUT it made me realise that me and Will had underwritten them. That was
so important because it really made us sit down and look at each character and
see who was working and who wasn't. And if a character wasn't working then we
had to sort it.
Frankie was a character, for example, that we really struggled with. He's an everyday working class man but that, in itself, doesn't make him interesting (especially as he's often partnered with Kate, who's very British, has a career, has an interesting backstory and is basically an alcoholic) so we added elements such as hints of underlying anger issues and, then, I suggested casting Roger who has a very distinctive way of speaking and we tweaked the dialogue to match that.
It’s
really interesting to hear you talk so candidly about the creative process. How
hard was it logistically to produce? Nowadays, there's quite a lot of
information available about the creative side of the role, but not so much
about the rest. And there are quite a few recording dates listed for Bloodlust...
Ha, it was genuinely one of the hardest things I think me and
David have done. You're looking at 25 actors in three cities on two continents
working from a 675 page script. It's almost impossible to get that to work but
somehow we did. I think only two things weren't recorded - a couple of Kathryn
Leigh Scott's lines (one of which David managed to fake by editing together from
other lines she had recorded) and a section of Stephanie Ellyne's dialogue, which we recorded later. The
trickiest thing, I think, is getting the levels right. You look at Episode 7
which is a lot of people in one room talking. Some of them are on a stage, some
are in an audience. People are having little quiet private conversations, shouting up to the stage, shouting from the back
of the room and the front of the room and so on. So many of those actors recorded their lines
individually or in groups of two or three over the space of a couple of months.
So we had to really liaise with our LA director, the
fantastic Ursula Burton, to get things like that right. We'd also record
different takes over here - getting an actor to say their lines normally, then
say them again but a bit louder and so on. For example, if a scene specifies there's a thunderstorm, then we'd say, "Can we do it twice - once normally and one again but speaking up over the storm, to match how the US-based actors do it?" I think it all comes together but
yeah, there were a lot of sleepless nights!
Well all the hard work paid off; the results are
seamless! When the opportunity presented itself, it must've been irresistible
to release the last episode on the same night as Lucy Beale's killer was
revealed on EastEnders?
Ha, that
wasn't planned at all! That EastEnders
storyline did influence us a great deal. It made me look at shows I love, such
as The Killing and Twin Peaks, and examine what makes them
work. In many ways, in those shows, the important thing isn't actually
whodunnit. It's all about what happened. What are the secrets each character
has about the night of the murder.
We know
when the cliffhanger to episode 4 of The
Killing is that X lied about where they were that chances are they won't be
the killer basically because there's a load of other episodes to go. So what's
interesting for the audience is discovering why they lied. And that's what EastEnders has done brilliantly and it's what we really tried to
do. And, again, it's why every single one of our characters had to be
interesting - both in how they were written and how they were performed. We
wanted the audience to suspect everyone.
Well you
had me completely confused!
Hooray!
Looking back on it, is there anything about Bloodlust you'd change?
I don't
know that I would. It's not necessarily that I think it was perfect (although
like I say, I do love it) but more that I can't think of even a small thing we
could go back and change that wouldn't have a huge effect on everything else
around it purely because it was so multi-stranded. It really was like a house
of cards - every line, every character, was necessary.
Yes, I can see that. In fact one of Bloodlust's greatest strengths in my opinion was how interlinked
everything was.
You've mentioned before that you always
wanted to be an actor before getting into writing. Several of your
contemporaries (Alan and John Dorney, among others) do both. You have done a
couple of bit-parts, but would you still be interested in acting in a more
prominent role now if the right part came along?
To be
honest, I just don't think I'm good enough. It's always fun on the UK recording
days because we'll get an actor in, or two or three together, and I'll read in
all the other characters for them to play against. So you could put together a
version of Bloodlust featuring me
doing my best impressions of Angelique, Maggie, Trask etc. It's the closest I
think I'll come to professional acting and I don't think it's something anyone
wants to hear!
There's a subscriber bonus right there! Speaking of which, can you give us any exclusives about this
year's six remaining Dark Shadows releases, the Dramatic Readings?
Not
really, sorry!
Aw,
spoilsport!
All of
them are set after Bloodlust - although a couple of them are characters telling
us about events that happened prior to Bloodlust, The idea, though, is that all
of them move the story along for our characters. They're six standalone stories
but there are serial elements.
Now, next year is of course the programme's
fiftieth anniversary. Do you and David have any ideas about how you'd like to
mark the occasion within the realms of Big Finish?
We've got
a few ideas but we haven't been commissioned further than the already announced
Dramatic Readings so it all depends on sales and so on. But yes, we certainly
have a few ideas - a few too many ideas actually - about where we'd like to go
next!
Would you
like to do another mini-series in the same kind of format as Bloodlust?
Oh, yes,
definitely. It was so rewarding seeing such an active engagement with the
series on the forums and so on. It's the hardest thing I've ever done but I'd
do it again like a shot.
Excellent!
Do you have any particular favourite characters from the original show?
Julia
Hoffman is possibly the most fascinating character there's ever been on
television but generally they're all fantastic - thanks often to a brilliant
cast. It's one of those shows where you don't notice when a character is
missing because there's not a dull one amongst them. It's one of the reasons we knew the casting for Bloodlust was so important: our new characters had to try and be as distinctive and interesting (without being OTT or caricatures) as the original series' characters.
Was there
a particular reason, beyond already having so many characters, that you chose
not to bring her back?
Basically
because we'd have to recast her, sadly. And so much of Julia is down to Grayson
Hall's astonishing performance. I'm not saying we'd never do it if the right
story came up but that story wasn't Bloodlust.
As I
mentioned above, this series has been received fantastically, by fans and those
less familiar alike. Do you have a particular favourite comment you've read?
Actually
my favourite comment was a conversation I had a with a friend of mine. He
bought the series despite not being a fan of Dark Shadows or audio drama in general and he - genuinely - loved
it from Episode One. After Episode Four or Five, I think it was, we were sat in
the pub and he was desperate to tell me that he thought he had worked it all
out. He'd actually got the set-up right but not the killer. That someone with
no interest in Dark Shadows had
become so invested in the story, well that's just the highest compliment
really.
As a newcomer to Dark Shadows, I had a
similar experience. It's really heart-warming that it had that much of a reach
though.
You've done a lot of writing beyond Dark
Shadows though, and even beyond Big Finish. Would it be fair to say that it's
all happened off the back of Doctor Who story The Rapture?
That's
certainly where it all started, yeah. Although it's not exactly the most
popular story Big Finish have ever released. But yes, that's where it all
began!
So Gary
Russell's to blame!
Yup! It's all his fault!
Gah,
curse him. He also commissioned your Torchwood episode, of course.
Well, he
was responsible for me meeting Russell and Julie. I'd already been working for
BBC Wales on the Doctor Who
websites. By then Gary was the script-editor on Torchwood and he recommended me
to them.
Speaking
of which, there's talk of new Torchwood radio plays going round at the moment.
I don't suppose you'd know anything about those?
I don't,
sorry, but if I hear anything definite then I'll be hammering down the doors to
write one!
That’s
great news!
Having contributed to TV spin-offs Torchwood
and The Sarah Jane Adventures, the official website, various printed
collections and the audio adventures, you must be the person who's got closest
to writing for Doctor Who without actually having done so!
So how about it?
Yeah. I
basically get emails from Cardiff saying "Joe! We want you to write Doctor Who.... the Experience!"
But I love it! I've been so lucky in what I've been commissioned to write!
Yes, you just missed out... again!
Oh, it's hardly missing out! The last few years have been
amazing!
Undoubtedly.
You've said before that you'd only like to write another Doctor Who audio if
the right story came along. Has that happened yet?
It's more
that I feel I've done lots of them so I'd be more interested in writing one if
it especially appealed to me. I like variety. I love writing kids TV but I also
love writing dark short plays for an adult audience. One minute I'm writing a
short story about the Cybermen, the next I'm writing a 13 part audio
supernatural murder mystery, the next I'm writing John Watson's blog. For me, that's the appeal of being a writer.
Well,
variety is the spice of... err... writing. Moving on, what's your guilty
pleasure Doctor Who story?
I adore Silver Nemesis. I can see it's not the
best but I genuinely don't understand how someone can't enjoy it - it's funny,
silly, bonkers Doctor Who. Stopping
alien invaders using jazz is something that could only happen in Doctor Who. And Lady Peinforte is a
delight!
I love Delta and the
Bannermen for similar reasons! There's something adorably naff about some
of the McCoys, isn't there? Now, if you had to be locked in a room with one actor who's played the
Doctor and forced to watch one story with them for the rest of eternity, who
would it be, and which story?
Oh
crikey! Christopher Eccleston because I think he's an amazing actor and a
really interesting person. As for which story, maybe An Unearthly Child?
Interesting
choices! And if offered a one-way trip to any place and time, where would it
be?
I'd love
to go back to my childhood, actually. See how it compares to my memories.
That's a
great answer, we've not had that before! Taking everything you've written into
account, what would you say you're proudest of?
Hooray! I
don't know, actually. I'm so proud of The
Rapture because it was my first professionally-commissioned piece of
writing. I'm incredibly proud of my first short play - Nice Sally - because it was an amazing experience and the audience
reaction was fantastic. At the moment, though, I'd have to choose Bloodlust. I'm just so proud of what we
achieved with it.
It's
worth remembering that your career was effectively started by sending a pitch
off. Beyond practising and practising, would you say the most important thing
for budding writers is to be proactive?
I think
so yeah. Join a local writers’ or actors’ group. Look at the BBC Writers’ Room
website. [link] But, yeah, just keep writing. And don't limit yourself. If you
want to write because you want to write Doctor
Who then you're doing it wrong. Doctor
Who might be what's inspired you to write but it shouldn't be the only
thing you want to write for. And go out. Go to parties, go to the pub. You need
to know how people talk to each other, how they interact and so on.
Finally,
we've talked about the future a little already, but is there anything we've not
discussed you have planned for the immediate future?
I was really happy last year to do my first non-sci-fi TV - a
kids’ show called Millie Inbetween -
so I hope I'll get to do more of that. Other than that, my big plan this year
is to finish a full-length film script and to write a full-length play for the
theatre.
Well the
best of luck with those. Joe Lidster, thank you very much for your time.
No
worries! Thank you!
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